The Spokesmen 59 – Rogue Butchers

1. 

   Tom

   January 22, 2011

   Pass “mustard”? Seriously? Try “muster” next time. ::rolling eyes::

   But, really, good show today.

2. 

   David Bernstein

   January 23, 2011

   I was gonna say something at the time but I didn’t want to interfere with anyone’s train of thought.

3. 

   Richard Schuhmacher

   January 24, 2011

   Donna/spokesman
   I thought it was more than deep it is what life is all about, compassionate and sincere and a realistic comment.The teams should have real support systems in place other than an exploitive system.To the rest of you guys there was a lot of silent pauses, next time grow up and support donna she was the star in this podcast

   Rich

4. 

   Donna Tocci

   January 24, 2011

   Hi Rich! Thanks for the kind comments, they are much appreciated. In all fairness to my colleagues, this is a topic I sprung on them during the show. It’s a heady issue and not one that there is an easy answer for. Maybe, after some thought, we should revisit it again on another show?
   Like you, I believe the teams should be part of the solution, not part of the problem. When a rider is allegedly caught doping, teams should not be allowed to throw up their hands and walk away with a snide comment or two about how awful the rider is. That doesn’t help the rider, the team or the problem, in general. They should be required to help that rider, in some way. That doesn’t necessarily mean they are admitting any guilt or culpability, only that they care about a human being that, up until moments ago, was a part of their team.
   Just my two cents…but I fully believe that no 19 year old should ever feel like their life is over…ever. So, something needs to be done.
   Thanks for listening, commenting and caring, Rich!
   Donna

5. 

   Mark Stechschulte

   January 31, 2011

   I’ve been thinking about Donna’s comments regarding tainted riders being ostracized after failing tests for PEDs. Her comments were original in intriguing.

   First, Contrador’s reaction the other day, whether truthful or not, is a typical reaction of elite athletes including Lance/Tiger/Barry Bonds/Mark McGuire/etc. I’m reminded of John Dowd’s investigation of Pete Rose. Here’s a link to one interview: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1265784. Dowd recalled that he was incredulous with Pete, trying to convince him that there was a train of evidence heading at him full speed that was going to run him over. Pete refused to acknowledge his fate, and eventually was banned from baseball for life. Something in high achievers tends to make them buckle down and fail to see the irrefutable evidence accumulating demonstrating their guilt.

   I suspect elite athletes underestimate our desire or willingness to forgive. Perhaps it empowers us to forgive someone. Perhaps we empathize with other’s flaws. Tiger Woods comes to mind. Maybe he doesn’t want our forgiveness, doesn’t need our forgiveness, or feels demeaned by our forgiveness.

   Finally, I think Donna may have a point that ostracizing transgressors could be counterproductive or destructive. Let’s face it, many of the riders/teams are trying to cheat or find a hidden advantage. However, when one of them is caught, suddenly there’s a stigma like the guilty party is a leper. It’s hypocritical, in my opinion, for the teams to cast rider’s off since many on those teams or directing those teams do or have stretched the rules to their own advantage. Further, I struggle with wondering whether we’re too harsh on the guilty. Perhaps a one or two year ban is too long. Maybe more would come forward, admit their guilt, or cooperate in legitimate investigations if they had faith that punishments may be tempered, say down to a three month or five race ban? What is more effective, harsh irrevocable bans, or bans with time off for good behavior? Granted, fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me.

6. 

   David Bernstein

   January 31, 2011

   Thanks for your comments! I have a feeling we will come back to this subject again on a future show. Meanwhile, I think that you and I, and perhaps Donna and I, differ in our opinions on this issue.

   I have no tolerance for cheaters in sport, or in any other aspect of life, and I believe that ostracizing those who do wrong is absolutely the right thing to do. I think one or two year bans aren’t tough enough. I think that if you use a banned performance enhancing substance, you forfeit the privilege of participating in sport. I do, however, agree that if the teams, sponsors, officials, doctors, coaches, etc. are complicit in the cheating that their feigned outrage once a rider is caught is indeed hypocritical. Perhaps it is time for teams, directors sportif, and others to incur some sort of penalty when one of their riders is caught doping. It’s one thing to say that your team is all about zero tolerance, but it’s quite another when it hits you and your sponsors in the pocketbook.

   Thanks for listening and for your thoughtful comments.

   David

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