Month: September 2022

September 24, 2022 / / Blog

24th September 2022

The Spokesmen Cycling Podcast

EPISODE 307: Kidical Mass: How, Why, Where, When

SPONSOR: Tern Bicycles

HOST: Carlton Reid

GUEST: Kat Heath, Kidical Mass, Reading

TOPIC: Hundreds of “Kidical Mass” rides are taking place across the UK and Europe this weekend. A more family-friendly version of Critical Mass, these rolling demos show decision makers – with an abundance of cuteness — that children need safe space to cycle and that roads are theirs too. Kat Heath of Reading’s ride explains more.

TRANSCRIPT

Carlton Reid 0:13
Welcome to Episode 307 of the spokesmen cycling podcast. This show was published on Saturday 24th of September 2022.

David Bernstein 0:29
The Spokesmen cycling roundtable podcast is brought to you by Tern bicycles. The good people at Tern are committed to building bikes that are useful enough to ride every day, and dependable enough to carry the people you love. In other words, they make the kind of bikes that they want to ride. Tern has e bikes for every type of rider. Whether you’re commuting, taking your kids to school, or even caring another adult, visit www.tern bicycles.com. That’s t e r n bicycles.com to learn more.

Carlton Reid 1:04
Hundreds of critical mass rides are taking place across the UK and Europe this weekend. A more family friendly version of critical mass, these rolling demos showed decision makers with an abundance of cute purse that children need a safe space to cycle and that road of theirs to Kat Heath of Reading’s ride explains more.

Kat, you’re organising the Reading version of critical mass. First of all, what is Critical Mass is like a form of putting kids in the way of trouble because critical mass where does this come from, of course is famous for being quite an anarchic.

Kat Heath and son

Kat Heath 1:52
So Critical Mass is a worldwide grassroots movement that is intended to say that cars, not cars, the street should be for kids not cars, and that we need better cycling infrastructure to make it safe for our children to cycle. If you imagine an eight year old cycling to school, for most parents, that’s absolutely terrifying. And that shouldn’t be the reality. They’re not designed with the same principle that critical mass has a lot of these rides are fun, fun, family friendly rides that don’t even go on the roads. Some people do want to use them more as protest rides, which is absolutely fine. But the heart of these rides is just trying to raise awareness of the diversity of people on bikes, and why we need better infrastructure. I think, a brilliant point that we consider that a city that is designed to be good for children is good for everybody from your pensioner who’s out on a bike because is there any mobility aid? I have a friend that has MS and having an electric trike has completely revolutionised his life. And he’s been able to maintain a degree of independence he just wouldn’t have otherwise. It’s just a good thing in general, I think. Does that answer the question? I ramble, you can tell me to shut down

Carlton Reid 3:06
and that’s fine. So is this by using kids using this perhaps the wrong word probe? But by involving kids? Is that a kind of wave of almost softening the message? Or is it that’s the absolute message we need to do this for kids?

Kat Heath 3:21
That is the absolute message, we need to have this for our children. I my little boy is 18 months now. But we’ve been cycling since he was five weeks corrected. And my ability to cycle with him completely changed how I could cycle I couldn’t cycle defensively like I used to. I couldn’t fit in gaps that were there before and I became I had to be in traffic because I had a trailer behind me. And there was just no way that I could like how I used to if your child is five years old, our setup just does not allow the children to cycle and they need to be at the heart of these decisions. I think the other thing that like is really key for why it’s so important for children. They are the people that are going to be living on this planet long after you and I have died. And the reliance on car travel at the moment is fueling climate change. We have an obesity crisis. We have a air crisis, air quality crisis and enabling active travel whether that scooting or cycling or walking or wheeling has to be at the heart of everything. At the moment most of our towns and cities are just not set up to support that.

Carlton Reid 4:31
So by riding with with your kids and with families and is that something that you can try to get local politicians involved? So you know, you’re basically the message is gotta go to them to improve anything in your in your city. Are you getting the media involved? How are you pushing this message apart from the actual ride?

Kat Heath 4:50
So again, this will change from group to group. So I helped form the one in Inverness and the one in Redding. So I can speak for both of those. We have actively invite It counsellors to all of the right and we’ve seen different parties turn off different frequency. Inverness and reading, we’ve got the right mic normally me or somebody else invited to a lot of like the clean air or the active transport committees, so that we can start being that voice for, hey, this is a great design, but that’s not going to work for a child. So let’s rethink this. I think also the Inverness ones especially, every council meeting, we heard different counsellors reference them about why active travel was so important. People that weren’t turning up to the rides were using us as a really good example of why the city needs to be designed better. It also just highlights awareness, I think the amount of people that have stopped and chatted to me and my son, when we had a trailer and now is on the back of my bike to say hi, I’ll be like, Oh my God, that’s a brilliant idea. I didn’t realise you could cycle with a child. I think that helps other parents that maybe aren’t as confident doing it as well. So you start having that knock on ripple effect.

Carlton Reid 6:03
That critical mass, famously, was like once a month. So how often is critical mass,

Kat Heath 6:10
again, depends on this is all local people. So it’s normally local parents, but not always raising it. And it’s how many marshals you can have. So marshals are there to keep the children safe when you’re cycling. We reading is working we’re working on now. So we do ours every other month Inverness, there’s monthly bath has a different frequency, it’s really dependent on the city or the town, and how much time the people organising it have got to do it.

Carlton Reid 6:39
And how many places around the UK and perhaps worldwide are organising critical mass.

Kat Heath 6:48
UK, there has been so Germany who are incredibly good at this have been organising worldwide events. So they had one in May, there was 11 towns and cities writing and I think that had doubled from the year before. In September, were aware there’s about 15 or 18 rides happening in September. So it’s growing little by little, I can find the stats from the last ride and actually email it to you. But there was over 100 I think almost 200 rides across Europe in May. So it is growing. And it’s coming to the point about like raising awareness, the more people see these happening, and the more we can get word out about these very fun and very cute events. And I think more people will start doing them. I hadn’t heard of critical mass until last year. And now I don’t stop talking about them.

Carlton Reid 7:41
And, again, that this will be a question that your answer will be, you know, it depends on each town. But if you give us a broad spectrum here of kind of the the amount of people that have kids matter, parents, how many people are attending these events, so So give me a flavour.

Kat Heath 7:58
I think it’s about 100 people. So including parents and children that are coming. school holidays have a surprisingly big impact, which I didn’t think through. But yeah, most of the rides that I saw in May, were about 100 people that said some rides had 200 London gets a lot more. So yeah. Yeah, about, I’d say 50 to 100 on every ride that I’m aware of apart from one last month, which where we had 10 people turn up.

Carlton Reid 8:31
Was that bad weather? What was the 10?

Kat Heath 8:33
Heat wave? Oh, like we Yeah. Also, I think we put it in the wrong location. And a lot of it’s trial and error. You try new things and school holidays.

Carlton Reid 8:47
What’s what’s the right location?

Kat Heath 8:50
For the rides? I, I got the same answer. It depends on what you’re trying to achieve. So I think if you haven’t done that many of them sticking to safer paths that you know, well, is a really good idea. Edinburgh to have, like, I think they had 200 people came and they were on the road. And they gave people lots of warning. And it was just fantastic to see children doing these beautiful routes, we tend to go from Park to Park, one of the things we’ve been trying to do and reading is highlight cycle routes that take you to areas that children actually want to be to help inspire parents cycle with their children.

Carlton Reid 9:31
Because if you did it on, say, an existing bike path that was already great. Yeah. Which is which would be fine for the kids to ride on already. But kind of not really promoting the message you’re trying to get out there is it’s like we want bike paths here. Not to use the existing ones which we know are okay for kids.

Kat Heath 9:52
I slightly disagree with that. I think highlighting good infrastructure especially if you’re trying to inspire more people to cycle is a great idea. At the same time, highlighting where there needs to be more, because it’s a massive gap. So you want to cycle to things like your hospital, to your doctor’s, to your schools, to your parks, I want to be able to cycle my kid to nursery and not have someone tried to run me over and then be able to go to a coffee place. And I think it all needs to tie in and be connected. Have you read invisible women, where it highlights that most carers which predominantly are women, we don’t tend to go A to B, we tend to have these A to B to C network journeys. And what we need to show is that we need connected networks with secure bike parking, that are segregated paths so that we can get everyone cycling. And there’s a million different ways of highlighting that. But it needs to be designed with accessibility in mind. And I think some plans assume a confidence level that not everybody has all that it will work for every that it will work for a single person on a bike. But then that doesn’t account for having a trailer, it doesn’t account for being a recumbent or traffic lights are a nightmare when my son is in a bad mood with me because he was my bike. And it’s just something you’d never find. And I’m not I don’t shoot the red lights, by the way. But it’s just finding what’s right for where you are and how engaged your active travel teams are and how engaged your counsellors are, and also the maturity of the cycling infrastructure in your towns and cities.

Carlton Reid 11:29
So what’s it like in Reading already?

Kat Heath 11:31
awful, it is absolutely awful. And reading, it’s like being in London 10 years ago. I’ve lived in London, I lived in London for when I was 18 when I was in my early 30s. And I cycled most of that time. And it feels like that here, the drivers are not prepared to see cyclists on the road, where they do see cyclists on the road like I regularly get sworn out, I regularly get driven at. I have had one guy scream at me with my kid on my bike to get on the effing pavement. I’m just like, that’s not even legal dude.

Carlton Reid 12:06
Kat, why would you in that camp? I’m being devil’s advocate here. In that case, why would you then inflict such an awful activity on on children, if you’re getting, you know, this kind of part of

Kat Heath 12:19
the reason they’re behaving like that is because we don’t have segregated bike paths. And they see us as an intrusion is the dog really annoying in the background?

Carlton Reid 12:29
There’s dogs, there’s dogs everywhere, don’t worry about it.

Kat Heath 12:32
Dogs, my sister. At the moment, some drivers and not all see us as a conflict were to be less than 2% of freaking road traffic. But if we had better segregated paths that were safe to use, more people would be using them, there’s less traffic on the road, it is better for everybody. And I think this is why Critical Mass ride and engaging with your counsellor. Any form of activism that argues for active travel is so important, because we need to get people out of cars for short journeys and onto bikes and, or onto scooters or onto whatever it is. But that’s not going to happen until the infrastructure is there. And if these rides can safely and in a fun way, highlight the need for that infrastructure that has to be a good thing. Which coming back to your question of whether it should be on the road or on pavements, non pavements on like in existing infrastructure, show a family a route that they wouldn’t have dreamed of, to get between their school and their part. And that to me as a win as much as it is getting highlighted highlighting the need for why this road needs infrastructure on it. It’s got to come from every angle. And it’s got to be fun. Because again, you’re right. Why would children and families turn up if it’s not fun, and they don’t feel safe?

Carlton Reid 13:49
So I’ve been on my local one which is was in Whitley Bay, North North Tyneside, I find I felt kind of awkward, because I was invited along to take photos. But I didn’t have kids. And well, I hadn’t I didn’t have kids there. So my kids are, you know, flown the nest and stuff. So and they’re riding their own bikes now in other cities. So I didn’t have like a tot with me. So I felt a bit awkward. So these rides, do they welcome everybody to join in? Or is it if you haven’t got kids, you can’t come along?

Kat Heath 14:19
I again, this is going to be on an individual talent level. All the ones that I am aware of that I have been involved in or that everybody is welcome. I think one of the ways we’ve marketed it as please come you don’t need a responsible child to look after you. If you don’t have a responsible child and you’re interested in marshalling please chat to us about that because we always need more marshals. But again, the whole idea is diversity. My parents live up in Inverness, and my poor dad every right I was like, Dad, I need you to come with mom on the tandem. Just so we can highlight that we have pensioners cycling it’s important to show diversity in every area. I’m the person that organises them in Exeter, the Powell doesn’t have any children. He just thinks that cycling should be safe for everybody, no matter their age group and loves critical masses. So he’s led on organising one that everyone is genuinely welcome, the more people we have out there, and the friendlier these things are, it’s got to work for everyone, right. And one of the things I’ve been discovered when I talk to taxi drivers, and this is their living like livelihood, they obviously get anxious when we talk about or anyone talks about shutting down city centres. But actually, if you had less cars there and you had more bikes, the people that did need to get into there, we’ll be able to use the taxis or we need to start engaging everybody in his consultations and making sure that the best solution for the future is heard in my opinion. And we’re not doing that because we’re prioritising people’s convenience about using a metal box over our children’s future. And like I don’t, I don’t know how old you are. But if your children have flown the nest, probably, like, not in your 20s anymore. Like when I grew up, we had water fights in the street, and I could psych on the street. I’m teaching my little boy how to walk right now. And I hate taking him down our quiet road because the cars are parked everywhere, there’s cars racing up and down a residential street and it just doesn’t feel the safe area that I grew up in. And my dad was Army. So we grew up in villages and cities and towns like we moved a lot. But that’s not our children’s reality anymore. Because our streets are for our cars, not for our communities.

Carlton Reid 16:30
Let’s let’s dig down into any differences between this and critical mass because I’m, I’m struggling to see how it’s actually any different apartment, maybe there’s ice creams at the end and that kind of stuff. There’s more entertainment. Yeah, there’s like there’s the kind of that that blackmail at the end to get the kid to come. Because at the one at Newcastle, the one on the way into it was like we’re going to have an ice cream van at the end. And it was free, free brownies and stuff. It’s like okay, that’s not on critical mass. That’s that’s the difference. But just generally what what genuinely is the difference between because the describing events are actually pretty much similar.

Kat Heath 17:07
I think they come from the same ethos Critical Mass is started to raise awareness of the amount of people that were dying by bike. And sadly, that hasn’t dramatically changed has. To me, the main difference is someone’s organised both is the amount of planning that has to go into a critical mass. Critical Mass is you say a name a day, and then you cycle together. And you’ve got grown adults that know how to cycle. And you don’t have to worry about it as much critical mass we spend months sometimes figuring out routes that we can keep our kids safe on other people’s kids safe on accessibility as a huge issue for critical mass. Again, them having fun and enjoying this. So they want to carry on cycling outside of critical mass here is a thing. I do think it is a there is a lot of anger towards cyclists or people on bikes. And I think critical mass helps with that, because it shows that some of these people on bikes are children on bikes, and it is very difficult to have the same level of anger. So I think it raises awareness in a more positive tone potentially, then critical masses due and Critical Mass is a great fun. And I love attending them. And they still have the same bribery at the end, by the way, because they finish in a pub, what’s really the adult version of offering an ice cream. But they are all raising awareness that our roads aren’t just for cars, and it needs to be safe for all people on those roads, not just people in a metal box.

Carlton Reid 18:47
So Critical Mass is that famously, there’s no organisers of it are meant to be no organisers of it certainly no organisers who are named and can be contacted in in any named way. Whereas Critical Mass is very much you know who the organisers are? Yeah. It’d be easier for the police to come in and just stop this. So do you have to approach the police? Do you what do you have to do as an organiser to actually organise these things with your name on

Kat Heath 19:17
so we have recommendations on this you. We recommend you get in contact with your police force and let them know at least six days beforehand. Some of the police forces have been amazing sunrise, the police force are coming out and acting as marshals. Other ones there’s been more of a debate. I think one of the things if you are cycling on the road, you’re not holding up traffic, you are the traffic and that’s a really big thing to remember. You don’t have to ask permission you need to inform people that these rides are happening. In my experience, informing the council as well has been really, really positive. You don’t have to but in Vaness Council and Reading Council have been really, really helpful with us. In Venice, we had a problem with the route. And the event planning and road team helped me find an alternative route and got the permission to go through this area that was closed off by a private company. So we can keep the kids safe in reading, we were using a non we were using a lovely Riverside path, a part of the road that was completely overgrown with stinging nettles and I let them know and they went and cut it down for me. So I think there’s a huge benefit in working with your counsellors, but that very much depends on your councils and your relationship with your councils. I product managers live as a job. So communication and coordination and getting people to work together, I find makes anything in life work easier. But again, that comes down to your relationship in the city or town.

Carlton Reid 20:51
So the city or town that you’re in reading, have you seen any change? So organising these critical mass event? Have you seen any inkling that there might be some differences coming up? Or do you think this is a multi year, your child will be 23? Before you even get anything in? What do you see is the the progress?

Kat Heath 21:11
So I only moved down in February, I came down from m&s and wanted them here. So I said I’ve set them up here. I think the fact that we are sitting on council groups now is a great sign. So we can input on consultation, these things aren’t going to happen overnight. It can’t be 23 years. We just don’t have the time anymore. We are at a critical point in climate emergency. And we need to get more people doing short routes by active travel. Don’t expect it to happen overnight. Like realistically these infrastructure changes we’re talking about we’re talking years, not months. But I do think we need to start seeing changes a lot earlier than 21 years. And when I hear visions for 2035, or 2050 is like that, that’s too far away for my kid. I’m a very effective product manager. So I basically decided to take this approach with these.

Carlton Reid 22:14
Hmm, and how much organisation does it take and you get an inkling before that it takes more than a critical mass. But just just tell us exactly what you have to do.

Kat Heath 22:26
A high level you need a few people involved, definitely. You want to you need a route, you need a route that is safe for children and accessible for children. And just thinking things through like drop curbs. Or if you’ve got bollards, where you’d be able to get a trailer through or how a tandem would work. So a lot of route planning and that tends to be where the most focus is spent. You need marshals. So when you have kids going past junctions, just having a martial there to make sure someone doesn’t inadvertently or intentionally drive into the middle of the children, because they are like some of these kids are four or five on a balanced bike. And that’s not going to keep them safe. You need cake. So encouraging people to bake stuff. They’re fun, right? You do need that. What else telling the place that you’ve suggested is a good option. We’ve written a how to guide. We’ve also sorted public liability insurance. So people anyone organising critical mass can sign up to public liability insurance, which you don’t need to. But in my opinion, is a sensible idea to do. I think yeah, maybe and then you need to promote it. And whether that’s Facebook or parents, WhatsApp groups, talking to the local media, talking to the national news media, hopefully, I think it’s just raising awareness and getting people to turn up on the roads. That is most of it, find a safe route. Tell people about it. Make sure you’re keeping the kids and other vulnerable users safe.

Carlton Reid 23:57
I should be asking the kids this, but for obvious reasons. I can’t but what are kids think about this, this these rides.

Kat Heath 24:03
So mine doesn’t talk yet, but he seems to love cycling. He is so content on my bike is incredible. I can share a five year olds account of the last critical mass from one of the other organisers and he absolutely loves it. His main question after the last one was when’s the next one? Going back to Inverness. Some of the other people. Their children’s spoke to STV about what they thought about it and why these rights were important. And overwhelmingly the kids love it. They get to cycle they get to spend time with their friends on bikes, their parents on bikes and they’re safe. And then they get coke at the end or the he invested a lot working with 42 cycling to have ramps like mountain biking ramps so they could get exposed to that they got a pennyfarthing and a lot of the riders do have fun at the end and I think that’s me highlight head just how much we’ve lost that as well. Like you don’t play out on the street with your friends anymore because you can’t. And having those play out areas at the end have become a really important part for some rides on having that sense of community. But

Carlton Reid 25:17
yes, the ride I went on Whitley Bay was ended at a at a play park basically. So the kids could just leap in there, you know, jump off their bikes and go play together, which was, which was very cute. You mentioned before about the abuse, the sadly, the abuse that you get when you’re riding your bike, when you’re on the critical mass. Do you get any abuse from drivers then? Or is it the fact that there’s quite a lot of kids and parents on their bikes actually stopped any abuse?

Kat Heath 25:46
Very, very little. So I’ve probably done 11 right across in Vanessa reading. And I think maybe two or three drivers I’ve seen have been annoyed with the ride. For the most part, you just get these huge smiles and a few curious what’s going on. If you’ve been to the ride, it is a lovely, lovely thing to see small children on their bikes or on their parents bikes, ringing their bells or smiling. And for most people, I think it just makes them smile. We Inverness had a thing with the hospice, we went past the hospice room, and some of their patients would request to come over to the hospice window so they could see it. Because honestly, they just really enjoyed seeing it. I think the aggression towards cyclists has changed. I get a lot more aggression now than I did even 1015 years ago. A lot less sexual comments. But a lot. I mean, it could just because I’m older, right? But a lot lot more aggression than I did a few years ago, which is bizarre.

Carlton Reid 26:52
Yes, yes, it is very sad turn of event. And how long are these rides?

Kat Heath 26:57
In general? Three miles ish. You’ve got people on small wheels. Yeah, in general, just think through your target audience if you’ve got a small bike, a very small ride for you. Isn’t that small and also getting to them and leaving as well.

Carlton Reid 27:16
And when is the next event for you personally in Reading?

Kat Heath 27:19
Our next one is on the 25th of September as part of the European Critical Mass weekend. We’re going to do a combined ride so working on are going to start and then they’re going to join us at 1130 and Palmer Park, where we are going to ride together to finish at the reading Bicycle Festival where there will be cake and but also some stunts and tracks and cargo bikes so people can really see the breadth of bikes bikes available to them.

Carlton Reid 27:49
Thanks to Kat Heath there And thanks also to you for listening to Episode 307 of the spokesmen cycling podcast brought to you in association with Tern bicycles, show notes and more can be found as always on the-spokesmen.com. The next episode will be out next month. But meanwhile, get out there and ride…

September 22, 2022 / / Blog

22nd September 2022

The Spokesmen Cycling Podcast

EPISODE 306: Eco Adventure on Proposed Sail-powered Bike and Foot Ferry From Dover to Boulogne

SPONSOR: Tern Bicycles

HOST: Carlton Reid

GUESTS: Andrew Simons, Brandt Williamson, Robert Tickner, Tom Treasure, Caroline Tyndall, Wayne Godfrey

TOPIC: A pioneering wind-powered cross-channel ferry for cyclists and pedestrians from Dover to Boulogne operated by startup SailLink had a series of test runs earlier in September, and Carlton Reid was on the first crossing to northern France. SailLink plans to commission a bespoke craft for its 12-passenger service, but the demonstration crossings used a smaller vessel, the Mago Merlino, a 12-metre catamaran certified to carry six paying passengers and two bicycles.

LINKS:

SailLink

Tres Hombres

Guardian article

TRANSCRIPT

Carlton Reid 0:13
Welcome to Episode 306 of the Spokesmen cycling podcast. This show was published on Thursday 22nd of September 2022.

David Bernstein 0:23
The Spokesmen cycling roundtable podcast is brought to you by Tern bicycles. The good people at Tern are committed to building bikes that are useful enough to ride every day, and dependable enough to carry the people you love. In other words, they make the kind of bikes that they want to ride. Tern has e bikes for every type of rider. Whether you’re commuting, taking your kids to school, or even caring another adult, visit www.tern bicycles.com. That’s t e r n bicycles.com to learn more.

Carlton Reid 1:06
That’s the unmistakable roar of a Merlin engine

of a Spitfire, and that was coming from Biggin Hill, taking people on £3000 jollies over the White Cliffs of Dover. And that’s exactly what I’m looking at right now. I’m looking at Dover castle. I’m looking at the White Cliffs of Dover. And I’m looking at some ferries.

And I’m going to be going on a ferry very shortly from Dover Marina.

But not P&O, not DFDS. I’m going on a new ferry company, SailLink

And SailLink is taking cyclists and pedestrians across the channel from here in Dover Marina to Bolougne, in France, but not using big old boats.

The roll on roll off motorcar ferries, this is only for cyclists and only for pedestrians. And it’s a sailboat ferry. So it’s going to be the eco way of getting across the channel. And I’m waiting in the marina here for Andrew, who is taking his boat out.

For a bit of a test. He’s going to come back into the marina, very shortly. I’m gonna be getting on and I’ll be putting my Tern S8i onto the ferry. I’m guessing other guests is going to be joining us. And we’re going to be going across to France.

Andrew Simons 2:56
This is

Toby the Skipper.

Okay, you can pull up your head and lines on the floor.

Toby Duerden 3:08
Yeah. Right. So wear life jackets the whole time we’ve gotten just behind you that

Andrew Simons 3:15
I am Andrew Benjamin Simons Stolz.

Carlton Reid 3:19
we’re in the we’re not quite in the middle. Where are we in?

Andrew Simons 3:21
We’re not in the middle of the channel about where we are just coming in to the southwest bound shipping lane of the traffic separation scheme of the Dover streets.

Carlton Reid 3:35
Is that a dangerous place for us to be

Andrew Simons 3:38
Potentially, but there are very clear clear rules and for what we’re doing, and we all have a lot of equipment on board to avoid collisions. So there’s a lot going on. I don’t disagree. This is a really intense area if you look on a website like marine traffic and then focus in on the Dover Strait, all you will see is dots of ships. But that is not those those those markers on the website and not in real size, but it makes it look like there’s no way through it. But you can look around here. There’s lots of space, there are ships coming at us. But we can avoid those quite happily what we’re doing is perfectly permissible.

And we’ve followed the rules for doing what we’re doing. And there is plenty of space for this.

Carlton Reid 4:28
Toby has knocked the engine off now it’s the engine was ticking over to charge charge the engine basically

Andrew Simons 4:34
That was to charge the batteries we had some issue earlier. Yeah, that somehow for some reason the batteries not the engine battery, but the battery we have for things on board had drained quite a lot. So we were just charging up again. But now we have a hydro generator running in the water behind us because

Carlton Reid 4:51
you’ve got solar power,

Andrew Simons 4:52
we’ve got solar and now because we’re going along at a good speed there’s a good wind, we can drop this hydro generator in the water behind

us it’s not going to impact on our speed at all. And it’s going to charge the batteries using all using the wind.

Carlton Reid 5:06
And the wind is powering the sail.

Andrew Simons 5:08
Exactly. So we have a, we have an engine now above us in the form of the sails. And we have a fuel in the form of the wind that is blowing onto those. And it’s, it’s readily available for us and for the next person to use.

Carlton Reid 5:24
So Brandt there is walking. Yes. From here. Yeah, I’m cycling to and from here. So we’re green, the power that you’re generating from the solar and from the, from the hydro generator

And obviously the sails

Andrew Simons 5:41
Yes. Also, yeah.

Carlton Reid 5:42
Is that basically your schtick? You are taking people across who are pedestrians and cyclists using a green method. Is that is that that is at your sales pitch?

Andrew Simons 5:54
It isn’t actually no, it isn’t because we have to be careful of economies of scale. And if we would really do the calculation, you know, you’ve heard as we’ve on this vessel, we have one diesel engine and one electric engine, but the diesel one is more powerful. We use that to get in and out of the entrances to the to the ports where there’s tide running and things. So, you know, if we would boil it down and look at the co2, for example, or greenhouse gas emissions per passenger kilometre, we’re demanding, depending on how you’re doing, we might not be any better than a ferry. But it all depends how you make that calculation. And actually, I’ve worked in that field. So I know how complex and often misleading those calculations can be. So and the other reason I don’t sell it primarily on that basis is because we all have to go in the direction of being environmentally friendly, and reducing our impacts, also the big ferries. So if I, if that is my sales pitch in a few years, I hope I will lose my sales pitch, if that is it.

So I have to have other ones to keep my business unique and to keep that competitive advantage. And I believe that that that sales pitch is based on the experience,

but also provide in

connection with not only with the culturally with the places we’re going to and from, but also with the ocean we crossing we have in a completely different experience of the ocean, of the winds, you’ve already learned, I think just in this short time, an incredible amount about how a boat works and what we need to look out for. And what we’re using in order to get across. You’ve heard about tides, about winds, we’re using those natural prevailing conditions to get ourselves across. Yes, we have to use a little bit of fuel. But in the future, we’re also going to reduce that hopefully down to purely electric and be able to charge some of that onboard or recharge overnight at the the pontoon. And hopefully their sources of electricity are also going to be quite green.

Carlton Reid 8:14
So, how many people can you fit on here because this is not going to be the eventual boat?

Andrew Simons 8:18
This is yeah, this is this is

an interim boat. Yeah, this is purely for the pilot phase. And also I’ve used this boat in the past in the last couple of years with its skipper-owner, to explore the possibilities here and to to do the crossings and to yeah, really just run the feasibility on it.

Carlton Reid 8:41
Feasibility of it with the next boat is how many passengers?

Brendt Williamson

Andrew Simons 8:46
12, 12 People 12 passengers is a reg is an international maritime limit. Which means we’re actually if we stay with a maximum of 12 We’re not actually a passenger vessel, we’re not classed as a passenger vessel. And that means that we can use in theory any port we like we don’t need to go to a big ferry terminal in order to put our passengers through the passenger cross border procedures with a limit of 12 of course you are still a passenger on board. But we are permitted then to use a marina a harbour. And with good collaboration the border authorities, the agents come to us

or if it’s not possible we send out and they need. For example if a UK passenger is going to France now they must get stamped into France. And if the border authorities don’t come to meet us in France, then the passenger needs to go to

Calais to the port authorities and get their passport stamped in your case. You’re doing a very quick turnaround. It doesn’t matter it’s

it’s quite fine for us to arrive or a person to drive on

on this boat

on late in the evening, like we’re doing today and say, I’m going to go tomorrow, that’s alright. You don’t need to get your Passport, passport some immediately as you step off the boat. It’s just not practical. And they are very, they’re very pragmatic about it. But you do need to pretty much go straight there as soon as you can.

Carlton Reid 10:19
Now this this, this crossing isn’t the choppiest in the world.

But it still to me chopp to me compared to when I’m on one of those big boats.

Andrew Simons 10:28
Okay, yeah. Yeah, there’s some movement.

Carlton Reid 10:31
And that’s giving me a fresh appreciation of these these refugees in their tiny inflatables who are getting even worse bobbed

around the sea than than we are. So

what? How are you viewed by both border authorities? And secondly,

if you see

them coming across, did they come this way? What do you have to do?

Andrew Simons 10:59
Okay. Yeah. So to the first question, I had exactly the same sort of

anxiety about posing this concept, this very concept to the border agents thinking, they were just telling me, please, we have enough on our plates don’t come with this kind of thing. But I absolutely got completely the contrary, they greeted me with

welcome and enthusiasm for what I’m doing. And because I really, I spent the time of COVID really following up

on the regulations and making those connections and finding out how can we design this according to, to stay within the regulations we need. If we’re to operate the ferry day in day out, we have no other option but to work within those boundaries. And it’s only going to make our lives more easier if we, if we really cooperate, and if we can get them on our side and they cooperate with us. So I put a lot of effort into that before I really went to the public on this.

So actually, yes, you say, I actually, I did get a very warm welcome. And we’ve had a lot of exchanges and we found a way to do it. We’ve had them on the boat for discussion. I’ve been to the port to Police aux Frontiers offices in Calais now at least twice, to discuss with them. And they’re very, all very pragmatic and obliging.

And then to the to the, to the migrant issue, it is a very, very, very sad situation. It’s a very

personally, I feel a very, very sad reflection on on the UK

using its castle,

not only its castle status, but that castle.

fact that it is surrounded by this moat of the English Channel and they require

by not having an asylum procedure on the French coast, they they make these people have to cross the channel in order to claim asylum on French or English shores. But yes, they do not know what they’re getting themselves into, really, they launching themselves out into the channel into conditions that I really doubt they understand fully tides with the currents, the weather, the distance, where they’re going, how are they going to get there?

And yeah, the Dover straits is not a friendly place for the wheel now is this this is absolutely yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But that now they’re apparently they’re departing from quite a long stretch along the French coast are no longer focused on Calais

So that could be going southwest, passable on it could be going east, east, past to Dunkirk, you know, so, and then with the tides taken them back and forth, they could be they can find themselves anywhere within quite a large area and thereby a long way from shore if they’re not really on that Calais to Dover stretch, they can be a long way from shore.

Carlton Reid 14:18
And then what do you have to do if you spot them?

Andrew Simons 14:20
We are under obligation every ship passing the Dover straits operating in the Dover straits is under obligation to report to Dover Coast Guard, or to Cap Gris Nez on the French side, sightings of small boats.

There’s a little bit of

interpretation there because you know, anybody is allowed to be out at sea. And just because you say to small boat doesn’t mean you have to get reported. I mean, people do go around the world and all sorts of tiny things, but they don’t need to be reported as doing something wrong, you know. So these people are putting themselves out to sea in. What they are doing is something

are unsafe for themselves.

And so anyway, the first thing is, are they in danger.

So we spot one a little way off, we have the obligation to report it,

we might see people on it, we might not see people, any people on it depends how far away we are from it. And it can also be the case that the people have already been collected by the border agents, and the boat has actually been left in the water.

And I’ve had that now a couple of times that we’ve gone to investigate, and there’s been nobody on board, it’s just a drifting boat, no sign of anybody, they’ve probably been picked up. And actually, then if they if that is the case, then the border agents, mark the vessel, the votes were the number and

and that’s it, if there are people on board, then we have to think of our own safety first, were also quite a small vessel. And depending on how many they are, they can endanger our boat, if we somehow go to their rescue, and

we, you know, we can’t take an unlimited number of people on board, and that would endanger our own seaworthiness.

So we have to assess the situation, if there are people in the water, that’s a different issue, then, you know, everybody is obliged, under maritime law to go to the aid of people in distress. And that’s just what we have to do, regardless of who they are.

But we do have to be careful of our own safety, if there’s 50 people on board, we just cannot take all those people in the water, we can’t take them all on board. So but the you know, we’re in a very small, relatively small area of water. So if we report it, the the Coast Guard’s are going to be here, probably even almost just as quick as if we go to them. So we would stand by and make sure nobody is really suffering, and wait for them to arrive. And then we carry on. Okay.

And just to add to that, I don’t want to also in this whole SailLink thing I don’t want to,

I don’t want to make too much of it is it is a sorry, situation. And I would like to help their plight wherever I can

legally within what we’re permitted to do and

within the tolerance of the ports and the authorities that we’re working with. But

I also don’t want to make some sort of migrant safari out of this sailing issue that people come on board and are thinking they’re going to see migrants and have a look at it. It’s a big thing in the news. And

you know, we hear is reporting to hundreds of people arriving every day on attempting the crossing. What we don’t know is how many do set off?

Carlton Reid 17:45
And how long does it take you to get across with passengers? How long is this trip going to take?

Andrew Simons 17:52
Yeah, well, it depends on the winds today, we have good winds, we set off a little late for the title window that we have, but we should be fine. Now. We can always adjust our course to suit that.

So I think yeah, today we’re easily going to manage that five hour crossing

always takes a little time to leave the ports and to get into the other end. So between harbours Yeah, I think we have a for our Crossing, it’s at maximum, it’s going to be a nice, really nice crossing today. This is, as we’ve said, this boat that we’re using, now it’s a good boat, it’s commercially coated. On paper, it’s ideal, it’s all legal. For doing this in the future we need we need a bit of a faster boat, this has got a accommodation, you know, quite nice accommodation on board, all the facilities, we don’t need that.

We need a larger boat to get 12 people on and potentially their bikes, and to go faster.

A longer boat means going faster.

Carlton Reid 18:54
And then I mean those those big boats over there, they’re year round, you’re gonna be nowhere I can imagine at the moment doing something like from April to October, so Easter to sometime in the autumn.

Andrew Simons 19:09
Because, yeah, in winter, it’s when the big storms arrive. I don’t think many people are going to be wanting to come, we’re going to be setting off in dark in the darkness arriving in darkness.

It’s going to be a bit miserable, the boat will take a lot of beating. You know, it’ll take a lot of wear and tear in the winter. And I don’t think we’ll get much return for that and we need a time off. It’s going to be for the crew quite a demanding job. I hope it’s going to be really really rewarding and good job. But they need a time off in the winter. We need time to just get the boat back in shape for the next season. Make any improvements so no

additions, changes, all that sort of thing.

Carlton Reid 19:52
And how much is it gonna cost?

Andrew Simons 19:55
I don’t know. The moment we’ve got the prices that we’ve published.

And that’s simply based on

me putting that into my calculations, and together with sort of ideas on average passenger numbers and the number of days that we will be sailing, which are based on historical weather data.

But that can all be improved, with a better boat to have a better boat that can handle the conditions that meet, that we can go out in stronger conditions, but the cost the passengers remain comfortable and confident, then we can continue sailing longer, we’ll have clear cut off conditions where we simply say we can’t go out in that. But you know, with modern

today’s weather forecasting, we know about that at least two days in advance, so we can give our passengers prior warning and, and then the contingency plan is, if it’s still not too severe, then they can go on the normal ferry.

Or they can choose to alter the

travel and travel with us another time or they this is the thing I think with people travelling by bikes, and like brand is doing is pilgrimage. I think if people are already on this, they’re already out for some adventure, they have some flexibility with their bikes, I hope we can accommodate we can both work together to to, to build in this flexibility if needed,

without too much

discomfort to people’s plans.

So I think, you know, this sailing isn’t for everybody. I understand that fully. We don’t want everybody we have 12 places.

And but the people I think the people who will be appealing to

may be willing to also accept a little bit of flexibility. You’ve had to wait a little while on the quay till we got there today.

Yeah, but I think I think at the moment, that sort of special nature of the type of travel that it is, is, is okay. Yeah, we’re using natural conditions working with that. And I think I hope the passengers can accept that and tolerate that as well. And it’s also something novel for them, you know, not just to leave, according to a time a timetable

made according to I don’t know what, what, but we have our timetable is designed according to the tides, and that we can plan a year in advance, you know, the tides we know already next year, I don’t know if maybe we’re all

somewhere they’re known already many years in advance, but

so we can plan a year’s schedule. And then if we need to, we vary that a couple of days in advance. At the beginning or for the last year, let’s say we were thinking maybe we need to use have some different ports in mind. For example, on the French side, we have Calais, of course,

on the UK side we there’s not many honestly the either side of of Dover without going up to Ramsgate. There’s rye, which is not very usable for us. But maybe that could be our flexibility that we say okay, the winds are not very good that day, we’re gonna go to rye or we’re gonna go to Cali.

But I think now, it seems to be that by playing with the tides, we can actually

alter our course within this within the same overall course of trying to go between Milan and Dover for example that don’t belong we can we can alter our course

and tack and sail

and use the tides and the winds to still maintain that without I think that there’s more discomfort caused by a complete alteration the same we’re leaving from a different town or we’re going to a different town.

I want to try to avoid that if possible.

Carlton Reid 23:56
What’s your background? Andrew? Where do you come from? Why Why have you done this?

Andrew Simons 24:00
Yeah, well, this is sailing is the answer to my own.

Preferences to travel. I grew up in Yorkshire.

But for the last

quite a few years, I’ve lived in Switzerland.

Now I have a lovely family and home in Switzerland. So for several years now I’ve been travelling between Switzerland and the UK. And obviously, in the early years, I used the plane and I stopped doing that and use the Eurostar

done the ferries. My background is that I was I started off as a wooden boat builder,

working in various places, also went to Switzerland doing boat building actually, funnily enough with the opportunity to work in Bern in this capital city. I’d always worked on the peripheries of the coast. So that was quite an opportunity and then stayed in Switzerland and then I

Yeah,

I went retrained, studied environmental science and worked in the field of lifecycle assessment of transport and energy systems.

And so I guess what I’ve done is to combine all those sorts of things and the awareness through lifecycle assessment, and environmental impacts, human health impacts, all that sort of thing. And my own needs to get back and forth.

What I’ve also done in the last few years, is to revive my boatbuilding.

And to use that to help

cargo sailing

enterprises, there’s now been a resurgence that say of transporting products across the oceans, using sailing vessels. And that’s mainly Fairtrade organic, you know, nicely produced products such as coffee, cacao and rum.

And then selling in the markets in Europe. And they these ships, particularly the Tres Hombres, run by fairtransport, that goes back to Holland every year, after it’s done, its circuits. And then it has a big refit, like a renovation every year. And I go and help with that, because that has a wooden, they have wooden planks on steel frames. So I go and we there’s always a lot of work being done there. Lots of planks being done. So I go from Switzerland to Holland,

put in a load new planks and then go home again. And that’s my involvement there. And I’ve had the opportunity to sail with them. But it’s also inspired me to think, well, if this can work for cargo, then what about passengers.

So I’ve brought all of that together, the living in Switzerland, the being from the UK, the travelling experiences, the lifecycle assessment, all of that. Also, of course, I love sailing. And it actually started in the idea site in 2019. I went with my teenage daughter, from Cherbourg, in France, to Poole in Dorset to do a little bit of the southwest coast path. And so we were out for exactly for that for that a little bit of adventure. And we were thinking well, I was wondering, well, maybe one of the sail cargo ships just happens to be passing and they can take us across. And of course, they weren’t at that time. So we had to go with the big ferry.

And we arrived in Cherbourg by train. And then we walked to the ferry terminal. And in doing that, we passed the harbour with the yachts and small boats in two minutes down the road from the train station. And then we continue to walk for another hour and a half to get to the ferry terminal. And of course, in that time, we thought, Well, why do we need to go out to the ferry terminal? Sure, we can go on one of these boats. And that sparked the whole thing. And I started looking into it. And the thing is, I was thinking then to start up some sort of platform whereby all these boats that align in all these harbours can get used to take people across. But as soon as you start getting into commercial

exchanges,

then you need commercial certification of the vessel. The skipper needs to be commercially certified, and 99% of the boats out there do not have that. So

unless you’re having some sort of other exchange

is not permissible.

So that’s led it down this part of a boat specifically for this purpose with a professional crew

and operating on a very tight for shedule.

Carlton Reid 28:50
Can I ask about your wife?

Andrew Simons 28:53
my wife? Yeah.

Carlton Reid 28:54
Because your wife does bicycle infrastructure.

Getting people on bikes basically. Yeah, in a town or city in Switzerland.

Andrew Simons 29:06
That’s right. My wife runs the

is she’s she’s the head of the planning department for foot and for pedestrian and bicycle

planning for the city of Bern in Switzerland.

We were also very keen cyclists; we cycle as everyday cyclists.

But she does that professionally. Yeah. And of course in sailing, she’s a absolutely vital part of

this whole thing. I can’t do it without her, you know, she goes off to work.

And I get the the the possibility to develop this business.

And then from a professional point of view, yeah, she she’s

already involved in that and

I

very much helps to encourage and inform

the whole cycle the whole side of it with passengers with bicycles, yep.

Sailing, we’ve talked about the experiences of the sea and, and this is also a real a really serious sailing experience you’re sailing across international waters

on the open sea on a very tidally titled stretch of water. And you only really get to do this if you have connections with people with boats or you’re part of a club, it’s quite an exclusive thing. And so sailing is really a key part of it is to offer that just by buying a ticket for I think not that much

and gain that opportunity.

Also for children for groups for in the future also for people with wheelchairs, we want to be able to get bikes on and off easily but also people and people in wheelchairs. So

you know really open it up to to whoever wants to come.

Carlton Reid 31:04
And we’re arriving into Bolougne, fantastic voyage across, with the orange Harvest Moon. But now I’m going to hand over to David for a short break.

David Bernstein 31:16
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Carlton Reid 35:51
Thanks, David. And we are back and I’m back on the boat the ferry across and we’re leaving Boulogne now. And we are going to be about four or five hours before we’re in Dover. But we have a new passengers on board who are going to go all the way across to the UK.

Brandt Williamson 36:12
I am Brandt Williamson from Virginia in the United States.

Small town called Delaplane.

hadn’t been overseas in quite some time and very, very excited about this experience. So it’s already been quite an experience.

Carlton Reid 36:29
And what do you do when you’re in America? What do you do for a living for a profession?

Brandt Williamson 36:32
I’m a physician. I’m an emergency room doc.

Carlton Reid 36:35
And then if you hadn’t gone across the channel in a sailboat because the sail has now gone up a massive sail above our heads.

If you weren’t taking a sailboat across the channel, how would you have got across?

Brandt Williamson 36:47
Well, actually, this whole trip, my whole trip has kind of evolved. Originally, I was going to take the Chunnel across and then I realised well like that’s not going to be the most efficient way to do this. If I’m going to be going down to Dover walking,

because I don’t think you can get on to the channel there need to go back track to where you came from. So then I was just looking at going on one of these massive ferries that takes people across. But when I found out this was available, that was not that was not even a consideration anymore.

Carlton Reid 37:22
So eco we’re not burning any fuel here to get across is that was that part of the consideration?

Brandt Williamson 37:30
I think it’s part of the consideration. It’s also just the adventure of it all. This is just more adventurous than jumping on a car ferry.

Robert Tickner 37:39
I am Robert Tickner.

Carlton Reid 37:41
And Robert, what are you doing today? Why are you going across the channel in this eco friendly way? Or have I just preempted the question?

Wayne Godfrey

Robert Tickner 37:50
You have to a certain extent, yes. It’s it’s kind of a bucket list item.

You know,

I’ve always been looking for an opportunity to sell across the channel. And then I saw this this come up. I thought okay, that’s quite interesting.

Carlton Reid 38:06
How do you say where do you say it actually came up?

Robert Tickner 38:09
In a different publication with the independent Simon Calder. He’s he mentioned it and said that this was going to start, and I follow him on a regular basis. And I thought, yeah, that sounds great. Let’s do that.

Carlton Reid 38:21
And you’ve never been on a boat as small as this before always, maybe not across such a channel as La Manche?

Robert Tickner 38:30
Yeah, exactly. I mean, I’ve been on even smaller boats than this, but sitting not on a seagoing basis. So yeah, this is a bit of a new experience.

Carlton Reid 38:39
And what do you do for a living? Your Brussels based?

Robert Tickner 38:42
Yeah, I’m Brussels based. Yeah, indeed. So actually, I’m the head of PR for Toyota in Europe. So the other aspects of this is the sustainability angle, which, which has, you know, to Earth is very interested in that kind of activity. So looking at what’s happening here, I think aligns well with what I do on a daily basis.

Carlton Reid 39:01
And this has got some electric onboard

power certainly out of the harbour. Is that an interest of yours with Toyota?

Robert Tickner 39:12
Yes, indeed, we have a hydrogen fuel cell technology which

is also used for electric power. And we do have some, some prototype electric boats using hydrogen fuel cells

working on a on a transatlantic Trans Pacific bases. So I think it’s definitely something of the future and allied with sail. I think it can be a real boon.

Carlton Reid 39:38
So you’ve come across

from Brussels on the train. I presume?

Robert Tickner 39:43
I drove from Brussels to Calais.

Carlton Reid 39:45
You work for Toyota, of course you’ll drive, what a silly question? Okay, so,

okay, yes, a bit. Yeah. And you’ve parked up and you’ve you’ve got to here. What are you doing across there in Dover?

Robert Tickner 39:58
So I’m back I’m gonna get off this

Uh, I’m going to hop for it to the ferry terminal and go straight back to how you’re doing the full the full treatment and excursion. Yeah, I need to get back in, in Brussels for tomorrow morning.

Carlton Reid 40:12
What time is that? What time do you have to get to Dover?

Robert Tickner 40:17
Well, the ferry’s due leave at 10 to seven.

As well as a passenger, I need to be there about an hour and a half beforehand,

Carlton Reid 40:25
you should be fine. So because you were tracking the journey when you enter in vesselfinder last night.

Robert Tickner 40:30
I tracked it yesterday. And it took me six hours to get across. But I think if it’s six hours today, or less than I should be fine. You don’t have to run too fast to get to the ferry termina. It’s the hour and a half I have to be there beforehand, which is problematic.

Carlton Reid 40:48
And not every ferry company that goes from Dover will would accept you as a pedestrian or if you had a bike. So you basically they’re favouring car passengers,

Robert Tickner 40:58
They are there at the moment, which is a bit of a shame. I mean,

Unknown Speaker 41:00
the P&O are doing this, they’re not doing it for all of their crossings, just just a few . But the one that I’m targeting is the last one. So if I don’t make it then it’s gonna be a B&B in Dover.

Tom Treasure 41:15
I’m Tom treasure.

Caroline Tyndall 41:17
I am Caroline Tyndall.

Carlton Reid 41:19
Okay, and welcome on board. Why, why are you doing today’s trip?

Caroline Tyndall 41:25
Well, I saw the information about SailLink in a local newspaper.

Carlton Reid 41:35
French, expats or French, fully French.

Okay.

Caroline Tyndall 41:42
And I said to Tom, that sounds really interesting. And I’ve always wanted to sail across the channel. And as Boulogne is just down the coast from where we live, it couldn’t have been more convenient. And so we looked at the website and managed to secure two places for sailing today, which we’re very grateful.

Very easy for us to live we just drove down to Boulogne and parked very near the port. And the plan is to stay tonight in Dover.

and then come back to Calais tomorrow on P&O ferry, which is now allowing passengers after a long time.

So it’s a bit of a round trip.

Very enjoyable.

Carlton Reid 42:37
Yeah, well you’ve got some good weather. I was lucky yesterday.

Caroline Tyndall 42:41
A couple of days ago that was

sa y in French “souffle tempête”

Carlton Reid 42:48
That means a storm? Okay.

Caroline Tyndall 42:52
So Tom is a retired doctor

a rofessor cardiac surgery and so he’s still writing

papers for

medical journals.

Carlton Reid 43:09
So obviously this trip is attracting doctors

Tom Treasure 43:13
Yes, well

sailors

a lot of doctors go sailing it’s a favourite thing you know you have a boat keep boats on the channel Coast if any of my friends had boats but they might sell two weeks a year you know, but very busy. Yeah, and the channel is often inhospitable for the fun sailor.

But today it’s

always slightly envious but never really wanted to commit to a boat myself anymore because it doesn’t have to pass so she did have their time

Carlton Reid 43:51
and money

Tom Treasure 44:01
shred them under a shower.

Carlton Reid 44:02
That’s so this is this is poor man’s version of that so you’re you’re you’re going on a boat, but you’re not actually owning the boat and people are having to keep it exactly. You’re fostering this this ferry?

Tom Treasure 44:15
Yeah, well, it’s a very nice idea because crossing the Channel simply without having to take a car every time.

It’s something we lost for a while. I could do it again.

Wayne Godfrey 44:28
I am Wayne Godfrey.

Carlton Reid 44:29
Why are you doing this?

Wayne Godfrey 44:31
Making making the most of my time on the planet. I sort of read it in a local newspaper

and thought what a fab thing to do, combined with the opportunity to ride my bike, simple pleasures.

Carlton Reid 44:45
Wayne, what do you do for a living?

Wayne Godfrey 44:47
I am a removals man, which I find very enjoyable. It’s very physic, physical, physically active, physical when you’re part of people’s journey.

make people happy to bring calm to a situation.

Carlton Reid 45:03
So Wayne tell me your journey what when did you start and what have you been doing?

Wayne Godfrey 45:08
Started Friday morning, got the 9.15 ferry across in, arrived in Calais just before lunch, pedalled my bike down to Boulogne. Just do a record of where the sailing was from on Sunday.

Spent a pleasant evening in Boulogne. And then headed out

Saturday morning down past le Touquet into Berck. Again, some fantastic beaches, some fantastic cyclin. I can recommend France to everyone. And yeah, had a nice evening. Not too much to do there. But again, it’s what you make it and then headed out this morning bright and early. Watched the sunrise which again, I’d recommend everyone done now and again to make the most of every day. And yeah, cycled consistently 40 kilometres from Birck to Boulogne. Yeah, French road drivers are very considerare. And I had a wonderful time I’ve been on bike paths even on roads we’ve been on all mix yet.

The even in France, they accommodate bikes very well along. Most routes have a bike path. Again, it’s a road cycling again, the roadss in France are much more cycle friendly than in Britain. And yeah, the weather has been absolutely phenomenal. But again, it’s what you make it

as long as you’ve got warm clothing on top you

can generally tolerate most weathers. And I haven’t not worn shorts for five years because my skin is waterproof.

Yeah, I got soaked when I headed out from Margate on 6.30 Friday morning, but once I was when I was wet and I wasn’t cold. So yeah.

It was a very pleasant cycle as well.

Carlton Reid 47:06
So is this the kind of journey you would do

frequently?

Wayne Godfrey 47:11
It’s just I would say this

journey again and again. And again. Because it’s therapeutic. It’s environmentally friendly.

To spend your time, I find it’s always good to take time out for yourself, and do what makes you happy if something doesn’t make you happy.

Carlton Reid 47:30
Now when we get to the other side, how far you got to ride, what are you doing?

Wayne Godfrey 47:39
From Dover to my house is three hours cycling and it’s quite hilly and it’s about pushing yourself but there’s also within and making it enjoyable as well. So I’ll shift cycle to the train station and to get home and

Carlton Reid 47:58
where’s that where’s home?

Wayne Godfrey 47:59
home is sunny Margate, which I’ve been here for about 10 years now. And I used to live in the inner city. And it’s something so therapeutic about seeing the sea every day. And just being peaceful really.

The older I get, the more I try and deliver myself places under my own steam. Because I don’t find for most people it’s about the destination whereas myself, it’s part of the journey and the destination. I go to the Lake District, by train and by bicycle and a few times to come off the mountain. And I think I would like my car but once I start pedalling I’m free and I love it.

Carlton Reid 48:46
Thanks to Andrew Simons and SailLink’s first passengers for talking to me on what was a wonderful crossing between Dover and Boulogne and back again. Thanks also to you for listening to Episode 306 of the Spokesmen cycling podcast. Show notes and more can be found as always on the-spokesman.com. The next episode is a chat with Cat who is a local organiser of a Kiddical Mass ride. That show will be out in a day or two. But meanwhile, get out there and ride …